Comments on: Gun Control http://renovatus.com/rybee/2009/06/10/gun-control/ Walking With the Woods in Church Planting Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:03:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: rybeewoods http://renovatus.com/rybee/2009/06/10/gun-control/comment-page-1/#comment-2932 rybeewoods Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:37:26 +0000 http://renovatus.com/rybee/?p=859#comment-2932 Ben I like that. That's a great comment and deserves a whole post to itself: Evangelism and how it is informed by our consumer mentality. Even the basic assumption for how we present the simple gospel message reads like advertising 101. In advertising you tell people that they're unhappy/incomplete, that some certain item will bring them happiness, and that I happen to have what you need. Isn't that what we do with Jesus? Your life sucks/you've got a god shaped hole, Jesus is what you need, and I happen to know Jesus. Honestly though, my second thought (as noted in the blog) was more coming out of the idea that at least this church is doing something! Geez, if even churches did misguided racist evangelism at least they'd be doing more than what most churches/Christians currently do. I mean the church (from an evangelism stand point) can't get too much worse than what it is except to accelerate what is already happening (shrinkage). So even crappy evangelism is an effort in the right direction. Anyway, I'm really glad you said that. good point. Ben I like that. That's a great comment and deserves a whole post to itself: Evangelism and how it is informed by our consumer mentality.
Even the basic assumption for how we present the simple gospel message reads like advertising 101. In advertising you tell people that they're unhappy/incomplete, that some certain item will bring them happiness, and that I happen to have what you need. Isn't that what we do with Jesus? Your life sucks/you've got a god shaped hole, Jesus is what you need, and I happen to know Jesus.
Honestly though, my second thought (as noted in the blog) was more coming out of the idea that at least this church is doing something! Geez, if even churches did misguided racist evangelism at least they'd be doing more than what most churches/Christians currently do. I mean the church (from an evangelism stand point) can't get too much worse than what it is except to accelerate what is already happening (shrinkage). So even crappy evangelism is an effort in the right direction.
Anyway, I'm really glad you said that. good point.

]]> By: ben http://renovatus.com/rybee/2009/06/10/gun-control/comment-page-1/#comment-2931 ben Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:29:24 +0000 http://renovatus.com/rybee/?p=859#comment-2931 I'm also wondering about the whole outreach thing. Yes, I want to people to know about Jesus, but what Jesus are we inviting them to believe in? This is an ethical question for me. Is it ethical to say "Bring your gun, sing some songs, let's 'worship' together." and eventually tell people they have to put down their swords and pledge allegiance to God alone? Of course, I doubt this church would ever make that move. The point is, I struggle with the whole bait and switch method of evangelism. I struggle with asking people to commit their lives to Christ under one pretense (church is about you and your wants) and then telling them after the fact that their commitment to Christ requires more. Here's a ridiculous example to make my point. If I were a racist, I would hope that someone would say to me "Ben, if you want to follow Christ it means you can't be a racist anymore." instead of someone "leading me to Christ" without indicating that it requires a serious shift. So...I guess what I'm saying is that I want people to "know Christ," but I want to intentionally reflect on the Christ that I'm showing them. I'm also wondering about the whole outreach thing. Yes, I want to people to know about Jesus, but what Jesus are we inviting them to believe in? This is an ethical question for me. Is it ethical to say "Bring your gun, sing some songs, let's 'worship' together." and eventually tell people they have to put down their swords and pledge allegiance to God alone? Of course, I doubt this church would ever make that move.

The point is, I struggle with the whole bait and switch method of evangelism. I struggle with asking people to commit their lives to Christ under one pretense (church is about you and your wants) and then telling them after the fact that their commitment to Christ requires more. Here's a ridiculous example to make my point. If I were a racist, I would hope that someone would say to me "Ben, if you want to follow Christ it means you can't be a racist anymore." instead of someone "leading me to Christ" without indicating that it requires a serious shift.

So…I guess what I'm saying is that I want people to "know Christ," but I want to intentionally reflect on the Christ that I'm showing them.

]]> By: Jess http://renovatus.com/rybee/2009/06/10/gun-control/comment-page-1/#comment-2929 Jess Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:17:01 +0000 http://renovatus.com/rybee/?p=859#comment-2929 Hmmm...I know where you are going with giving the benefit of the doubt about it being an outreach thing, but that seems a little far fetched. Coming together to sing songs of allegiance to our country and celebrate our rights doesn't really seem to represent the Jesus of the bible or to worship him. Hmmm…I know where you are going with giving the benefit of the doubt about it being an outreach thing, but that seems a little far fetched. Coming together to sing songs of allegiance to our country and celebrate our rights doesn't really seem to represent the Jesus of the bible or to worship him.

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